Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.08 00:07:00 -
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Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 08/09/2009 00:08:38
 Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Golem with torps does rather pathetic damage against angel cartel, as these guys have a low signature and are very fast. So no-no on high damage hits from torps.
To be honest I've not noticed this 'pathetic damage' much, I run a lot against angels, but with double painters they drop like flies. Occasionally when the painters fail due to being in falloff you get crap hits even against bs' on approach since they are indeed pretty quick, but generally I find 'pathetic damage' bit misleading. Around 4 volleys for a bs is typical, that's what, <30 seconds, or about 800 dps applied from torps only.
Battlecruisers 1volley, cruisers maybe 2-3, elite cruisers obviously bit more. Even frigs take noticeable damage when double painted, though I rarely use anything but drones on them.
I'm not sure how that compares to other options though, since my previous mission bs was a typhoon and that's not much of a comparison considering I think I halved my mission completion times when I hopped into the golem.
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The Vargur though got excellent tracking and can hit the approaching angel cartel ships just fine.
While I agree that vargur is probably pretty decent at running angel missions (and unfortunately that's also one of the few things it's decent at), I doubt it's significantly better than a golem, and to be honest I have serious doubts wether it's even going to match one.
Tracking is probably not a problem, but even with the biggest acs and 4 gyros you're struggling to reach the above estimation of the golems 800 applied dps, even on paper. Bit under 800dps with faction fusion, and that's with 5km optimal. At 45km that's down to bit over 300dps. With barrage you're looking at 750ish dps at 6km and down to ~300dps at 65km which about how far a golem can touch with javelins. Above numbers assuming two falloff rigs and not correcting for resists: vargur loses a little of dps due to suboptimal damagetype, off the top of my head I'd estimate something like <4% less effective dps with fusion and <8% with barrage.
So, a vargur with no tracking issues can come close to golem dps at <10km and probably has some advantage against cruisers <30km, but I'm not entirely convinced wether the advantage against small ships will be enough to compensate for the lower overall dps.
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The Paladin uses just the right damage types for sansha and blood raider, and has at these damage types more raw damage than the golem. Plus we are talking about turrets. Cruisers are always a pain in the ass when going against them in a torp golem.
Paladin is a beast, don't think there's denying that :) Would like to reiterate though, that people make cruisers sound a lot more painful for a torp golem than they really are. Two painters is obviously a must though.
Of course, running torps on vanilla raven or CNR you lose both the painter bonus and the explosion velocity bonus, so the gap between EFT and applied dps is probably a lot bigger.
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